Infection Control and Prevention w/ Debra Willard Webb

Infection control and prevention are always in the news during flu season, but this year we have a new player that is causing more than a stir in the world today, the novel or newest corona virus, Covid-19. There are plenty of statistics and interpretations out in the public domain that don’t seem to jive, causing conflicting opinions, incomplete understandings, and misguided actions.  It can be difficult to know who to believe and what recommendations to follow.  On this episode of the MEMIC Safety Experts Podcast, Debbie Willard-Web, Safety Management Consultant with MEMIC and I will lay out what the current understanding of Covid-19 is, what parallels it has with influenza, standard practices for basic hygiene and exposure control, as well as recommendations for refreshing your company’s emergency plan.   Peter Koch: Hey there, listeners. Welcome to the MEMIC Safety Experts podcast. This is Peter Koch, your host, and today, we're going to take on the personal safety thing as it relates to infection control, influenza and the coronavirus. Infection control and prevention is always in the news during flu season, but this year we have a new player that's causing more than a stir in the world. The novel coronavirus COVID-19. There's plenty of statistics and interpretations out there that conflict, causing differing [00:00:30] opinions, understandings that aren't right and just incorrect recommendations. It can be difficult to know what to believe and what recommendations to follow. With me today is Debbie Willard Webb, safety management consultant with MEMIC, Certified Occupational Health Nurse. Today, we're going to lay out what current understanding of COVID-19 is, what parallels it has with influenza standard practices for basic hygiene and exposure control, as well as recommendations for refreshing your company's emergency [00:01:00] plan. Hey, Deb, welcome to the podcast today. Debra Willard Webb: Thanks, Pete, it's a pleasure to be here, and it sounds like we're going to cover a lot of ground. Peter Koch: We got a lot of ground to cover today, but I think it'll be OK. We got a we've got an expert on the line today, so we've got a lot of good stuff to do. So, let's just jump right into it. Let's lay out what we know about COVID-19. So, give us like a layman's description of what it is. Debra Willard Webb: COVID-19 is the newest, novel, coronavirus, [00:01:30] Human coronavirus. Coronaviruses have been around for as long as science has studied viruses and bacteria and coronaviruses are commonplace in our everyday world and also are characteristic of some animal illnesses. So most of our, what we think of as just common colds in winter, are actually coronaviruses, that cause those colds in the first place. There have [00:02:00] been some coronaviruses in the last couple of decades that have been new and that causes concern for science and for citizens because we don't know what new means. Does new mean it's going to get worse, or does new mean it's going to fade away and be just another one of the coronaviruses around us? Peter Koch: So interesting it's not something that we hear a lot of, especially on the news that the  [00:02:30]coronavirus is the group of viruses have been around for a long time and we're exposed to coronaviruses on a regular basis. It's just that these are newer or the newest one is the one we're managing right now. And then what we're trying to figure out is what does this mean for us? What does it mean for a person next door? What does it mean for the people within our family and what does it mean for the people within our workplace? So that seems to be the focus, and what we're hopefully [00:03:00] trying to do today is give us not so much an idea of how to back down from concern, but maybe back down from the panic. So maybe not so much anxiety but understand the urgency behind knowing what we're up against and knowing what we can control. That sound fair? Debra Willard Webb: Absolutely. I think the unknown creates anxiety for all of us. And just as you said, using that anxiety to mobilize [00:03:30] energy and alertness and that often helps us literally control that anxiety so that it's not immobilizing and distracting to our everyday work and home lives. Peter Koch: Yeah. Because we have to live with it. We have to live with these viruses that are here. So, we really need to understand what the next piece is like, who is really at risk for contracting this new virus and what does it mean to different populations. So maybe you can speak to that a little bit. Debra Willard Webb: So [00:04:00] one of the things that new means is that, there are lots of unknowns. New means we don't have great large numbers of people to develop answers to a question about exactly who is at risk and exactly what do those folks need to expect. But the information so far has given us some clues at least into the future. So we see that the older that we are, the more severe our response to the [00:04:30] COVID-19 virus is. Elders are generally the folks who have had deaths as a result of exposure and illness from the virus, this particular virus, and uniquely to coronaviruses, this particular one has not been as prevalent in young people, and children in particular as most coronaviruses are. So, we actually see quite a difference right now [00:05:00] in the death rates for children with coronavirus compared to our annual influenza viruses. So whether that's a trend that sustains as more data comes into the system is not clear. But it is something right now that is probably helpful to families in thinking about who's most vulnerable in this situation. Peter Koch: Yeah, that's a really interesting difference between influenza, which we've lived with [00:05:30] for ages it seems. Like growing up I remember my parents talking about the flu, and getting flu shots, and vaccinations and things like that. And there being fatalities from the flu both in the elderly population and the very young population. So that's a difference with the COVID-19 is the data that showing now the more severe reactions that may lead to fatalities are really on the elderly side or older people who have maybe a compromised immune system or [00:06:00] other underlying medical issues. Which is slightly different than what we see with influenza. Because that virus really challenges both the young and the old. Debra Willard Webb: Correct. The very young and the very old are affected. Certainly, coexisting illnesses and chronic illnesses are part of the picture with influenza. So, folks with other illnesses need to be particularly careful. And those are typically the folks who have higher rates of [00:06:30] immunization for the vaccine. So, part of that is where the concern about the news right now is loaded with discussion about when will the vaccine for COVID-19 be available. And that comes from familiarity with the vaccine, since we know about it for influenza. And folks with chronic illnesses are much more likely to receive those vaccines, to want to receive them and to be encouraged to receive [00:07:00] them by their health care providers. Peter Koch: Sure, sure. Very true on that end. So we know that for the COVID-19, the population that's most at risk is typically our elderly, but certainly everyone or anyone can contract it. What do we know about how the virus is transmitted these days? What do we know about that? Debra Willard Webb: So, the virus attaches itself to the fluids in our body and especially our nose and mouth and those fluids when we speak, cough, sneeze [00:07:30] and those activities we spray a little bit of droplet activity around us. Those droplets carry the virus to others around us within generally three feet, although with coronavirus in 2019, they're having us consider the distance to be six feet. So, the droplets are heavy enough that they don't travel much further than that. They don't drift on the breeze down the street or down [00:08:00] the hallway and then they fall to the floor or to a surface. There is some information telling us that the coronavirus 2019 may survive on some surfaces at some temperatures for some period of time. But that information is very limited and so not really very reliable. But that's what leads to the recommendations to be cleaning [00:08:30] surfaces that we touch. Recently saw information that said most of us touch our faces, our hair or our face 20 times an hour. That sounds like a high number. But even if it's half of that 20 times an hour, our hands have been on the doorknob, on a keyboard or light switch and we touch our face. That's a mode of transmission that is possible. The most likely transmission is [00:09:00] the droplet, so person to person. But other possibilities are still being considered and concerned. Peter Koch: Sure. So that makes sense. What you're describing there, is really good personal hygiene especially when you're in public spaces or even when you're at home and there's a family member who's ill to know that the most typical means of transmission are going to be being coughed or sneezed on. Right. So you think about being in the workplace, if there's someone who does cough or sneeze [00:09:30] or if they've done that and they've touched a doorknob or if they've used a keyboard or a phone. So making sure that you're using good hygiene practices and cleaning those surfaces just to make sure we can address some of the potential transmission methods that are there. We'll talk a little bit more about that a little bit later on as we talk about all of the good hygiene practices would be, your standard hiring practices would be. So how does the [00:10:00] coronavirus, now the COVID-2019, how does that parallel at all to influenza? Because we've heard a lot about COVID-19. And typically, this time of year, we hear a lot about influenza and the challenges that that's bringing to different sections of our population. So what are some parallels and maybe some more differences between the two viruses? Debra Willard Webb: So transmission is one of the parallels. Influenza is not a [00:10:30] coronavirus. It's a different family, if you will, of viruses, but nonetheless, similar in its effect on us as people. Some of us can have illness from coronavirus 2019 or from influenza and have very mild cases, maybe not even realize that we've had an exposure and an immune system response. So that's a parallel. Both viruses can cause very mild disease and [00:11:00] that's the case for 80 percent of people or more with both viruses are likely to survive and do fine, not need any medical care, not need to miss particularly time from work. We'll talk more about that, too. So the difference is that the severe disease in both cases is different. With coronavirus 2019 it seems to be pneumonia and severe shortness [00:11:30] of breath. That is the primary cause for hospitalization and medical care. And managing that response to the virus is what causes death. For some of the patients who contract. Influenza tends to be more about fever, cough, muscle aches and sort of general fatigue and malaise. So those symptoms are generally more manageable. It does seem that there may be [00:12:00] a higher severe illness rate with coronavirus, but only slightly at this point. And we don't have enough coronavirus in the U.S. to know exactly how our medical health care system will be able to handle responses for patients with patients carrying the new disease. Peter Koch: Sure. So let's talk a little bit about the differences and maybe some of the parallels between influenza, which we've had for [00:12:30] forever, it seems. And then the COVID-19 virus, the new virus that's in the news and people are starting to have symptoms of. So what are some of the differences? What are some of the parallels between the two? Debra Willard Webb: Sure. Symptoms, I think an important symptom is to recognize that illness can be very mild and mild can mean that we don't even realize we have the virus on board and our immune system is taking care of it. That's true [00:13:00] in both the new COVID-2019 virus and also with influenza. So part of that is the challenge, because that means while the virus is in, let's say my system, I could be passing it on, I could be transmitting it to other people. But it also means that just because we have a virus onboard, we are not necessarily likely to have severe reactions to that. Peter Koch: Sure and I [00:13:30] think it highlights the need for what we talked about earlier for vigilant good hygiene practices. So for someone to just understand that, yes, you might have a little sniffle, you might have a cough, and it doesn't matter what the reason is. It's always good to keep it to yourself. So make sure you follow those good hygiene practices. So the similarities, I think, are good. So the same things that you would do to help prevent [00:14:00] the spread of the flu are some of the same things that you would do to help prevent the spread of COVID-19. Debra Willard Webb: Absolutely. Which is sort of the good news, because you're right. We already know how to prevent this flu. Are we great at using what we know? Not so great. Maybe this will help reinforce those good practices. So they're better practices for all of us. Peter Koch: Yeah, absolutely. I thought it was interesting you brought up that the statistic prior to [00:14:30] about we touch our face upwards of 20 times an hour. And I was as we were talking here; I was just thinking about that. And I might reach up and touch my hair or smooth my beard or take my glasses off and rub my eyes. And I could certainly see the ten, fifteen, twenty times an hour, depending on what I'm doing. I can certainly do that. And being in one spot, not a big deal, just having washed my hands are coming back from a break and being able [00:15:00] to be in a clean space. Not a big deal, but if that is in the midst of riding the subway or being in the midst of a meeting that you're there for an hour or so or another area where you're more in a public space or a shared space, then yeah, that that might be a challenging place or a challenging habit for you. Debra Willard Webb: Absolutely. So we need to become more self-conscious about our habits and think about, social distancing [00:15:30] is the medical description or the epidemiological description of managing that space between you and me? We need to realize that coming in and out of an office room, it's handy to have some hand cleaner around so that, yes, if we're shaking hands and greeting people that we can do that with arms extended. We don't need to do that with a big warm hug with one another and just modify [00:16:00] our practices a little bit. Think about doing our self-grooming and adjusting our glasses after we've washed our hands instead of just before we wash our hands. So being more mindful of our own habits and we'll notice the habits of other people around us as we get better at doing that too, which will be kind of interesting. If you remember back when we all  learned to cough into our elbow a [00:16:30] few years back, we were queuing each other for that someone would start coughing into their hand or the back of their hand and someone else would signal to them, your elbow or your elbow. So it's something that we can do with each other and develop best practices that whether COVID-19 stays around or whether it goes away. Influenza is very likely to stay around. So these practices will have lots [00:17:00] of opportunity next year and the year after to be put to good use. Peter Koch: Yeah, for sure. Talking about the coughing into your elbow. We have a 12 year old at home and just over the years having to teach her how to do that because, you know, all kids will just sneeze or cough and they won't think anything of covering their mouth when that happens. And you can only say, cover your mouth, cover your mouth, cover your mouth so many times. And we've done that, and then we've taught her to cough into her elbow. [00:17:30] But the interesting thing was when she was learning to do that, she would put her elbow up to her chin, but her mouth would still be above the elbow. So it really wouldn't matter. Right. So I felt I had to take a picture and say, no, this is what you look like. That's not what we're asking you to do. So, yeah, interesting. Interesting how sometimes people learn and sometimes people don't. And yeah, the habits that we build can really, really help us with our personal hygiene. [00:18:00] And I like that term. The social distancing to make sure that like, again, we're keeping it to ourselves. Beautiful. Debra Willard Webb: Right. So handwashing is the most important thing that we can do. We'll talk about masks in a minute. But handwashing really means 20 seconds or more with running water over your hands and a soap product. It doesn't have to be a disinfectant product. [00:18:30] It probably shouldn't be. Just a soap product with running water. So it's not a quick dip and wipe your hands all over the towel. That's going to be a new or it is a new opportunity for us to make an improvement in our hygiene, certainly. Peter Koch: So let's talk a little bit about handwashing, because everybody you know, I think people understand wash your hands, wash your hands. But the substitute for washing your hands is kind of dip in your hand and the hand sanitizer rubbing it in a few times and my hands are washed. [00:19:00] So why is washing with soap and water and doing it for a period of time that 20 seconds or 30 seconds or a minute, depending on what information you've had? Why is that more effective than, say, using hand sanitizer? Debra Willard Webb: Hand sanitizer used effectively means enough on your hands to keep your hands wet, the entire surface of your hands, for 10 to 15 seconds at least, and if you sort [00:19:30] of measure that out the next time you use hand sanitizer. That's quite a dose. And that's 10 or 15 seconds that we are not accustomed to standing still, just wiping our hands. So using hand sanitizer truly effectively is challenging for lots of us. So there's one of the concerns about hand sanitizer. And then the viability of the sanitizer itself, because it has a shelf life like lots of other [00:20:00] products around us. And you want to know that it has the alcohol content that you believe it has looking at the label. So there's a little more range about whether you're really getting what you think you're getting. In hand sanitizer you want a product that's at least 60 percent alcohol. And there are products on the market that are not that. Soap and water, running water, means that you're literally loosening those viruses from the surface of your hand. In addition to [00:20:30] bacteria and other viruses that may be there as well. And they're literally washing down the drain. So they're not just going onto the towel or onto the doorknob. They're washing down the drain. So they're completely disabled. And your hands, then are sanitized. Peter Koch: So that's an that's an interesting thing to consider here with hand-washing here, actually, if you do it correctly, you're removing the virus from your [00:21:00] hands with the water and the friction and the soap. While with the hand sanitizer, you're disabling the virus. But it may actually still, the dead virus, might still be on, or the disabled virus may still exist on your hands even after you're finished. Is that correct? Does that make sense? Debra Willard Webb: That makes sense to me. I think both techniques have value. Hand sanitizer [00:21:30] is not a cleaner. So if there is visible soil or if you've picked up tissues that are still wet, then the sanitizer won't be as effective on a volume of material. That's a soap and water job. Hand sanitizer is intended for dry hands that are basically clean that need a layer of protect-ant and sort of sealant over [00:22:00] the viruses and then can disable them with a little bit of time for the alcohol to have its effect. Peter Koch: I think that's a great definition. So if you're looking to you know, what do you use when. Handwashing is effective all the time, as long as you have access to running water or clean water and soap and then time and some way to dry them off afterwards, even air drying would be fine afterwards. And [00:22:30] then hand sanitizer would be something that you would use only when you have clean hands to start with. So we've talked about handwashing and we've talked about hand sanitizer and we've talked a little bit about cough and sneeze control like not cough in your hands, cough into your elbow. Try to reduce or eliminate the spray of droplets when you're coughing or when you're sneezing. Let's talk a little bit about disinfecting some of the surfaces that we might be working around [00:23:00] or on. So whether it's a desk or maybe it's the lunch table or it's a doorknob or it's the handset of the telephone or the keyboard that you might be using. What are some strategies for disinfecting those surfaces? Debra Willard Webb: Soap and water. Peter Koch: I don't think my IT department is going to like if I put soap and water on my computer keyboard, though Deb. But I don't know. But just saying. Debra Willard Webb: Under 20 seconds running you don't think so. Peter Koch: It's possible [00:23:30] they might reject that as a viable use of soap and water on their computer. But you never know. Debra Willard Webb: Ok, well, let's say. So think of soap and water first. And is soap and water reasonable for whatever it is that you're cleaning. Doorknobs, soap and water is great. Desk surfaces, soap and water's fine for lots of our desk surfaces these days, not for all, don't want to ruin the wood grain. So soap and water is most [00:24:00] available and most readily available for us, particularly in businesses and offices where we may not have a sink or a bathroom around the corner. Then we want to start thinking about other resources and the sanitizing sprays are an option. The cloth rag, paper towel, the item that you're using to wipe the surface is important that it be wet enough to literally [00:24:30] wipe the surface, to clean the surface and remove dirt and bacteria and viruses. So that doesn't take scrubbing. Generally, if there are cracks or variations in a surface, then that's going to be a challenge. But it's also if you have a groove and a desktop and viruses in that groove, you're probably not coming in direct contact with it. So that would not be high on my concern radar. The [00:25:00] surface itself, the surface of a keyboard can be sanitized with the wipes. There are some particular wipes that are designed or made for cleaning keyboards, mouses and such that have an alcohol dose in them. It's a stronger alcohol than in hand sanitizer because the keyboard and the mouse can handle a higher level of, higher percentage of alcohol. So [00:25:30] using those products is probably going to keep you in better graces with the I.T. department. Thinking about light switches. Housekeeping and janitorial workers know this like the back of their hand. They are familiar with walking through a space and knowing exactly where those desk people put their hands and wiping those surfaces as they go. Some [00:26:00] of us, the rest of us are not quite so familiar unless we have young children at home. Then we know exactly where hands go. So it's going to vary depending on the space. But all of our spaces, home, cars, the steering wheel in our car, the doorknobs, handles, thinking about gas pumps. I mean, if you start thinking about where to my hands make contact in the course of a day. There are a multitude [00:26:30] of surfaces. Temperature is part of what kills a virus. If temperatures are too high and too low for them to survive easily. So probably the gas pumps in Maine this time of year are not loaded with viable virus of any sort. That's probably not where we're picking up influenza. But the gas pump handles in Florida or Georgia might be a place that those viruses have some survivability. [00:27:00] And if you think of the number of times those handles are contacted in the course of the day, then there's a risk there. And that's when I would think about hand sanitizer in the car so that after you pump gas, get back in the car and use some hand sanitizer before you get your hands back on the steering wheel and adjust the dials. Check your phone. Peter Koch: Yeah, I was just thinking about that. When you were talking about the different places your hands go. I mean, you could spend your [00:27:30] whole day with a pack of wipes, wiping down every surface before you touch it. But it makes more sense and it's a more functional way to live. To think about, all right, well, I can't control that, but I can control my hands. And I control what my hands either touch or control what I do with my hands after I touch something else. So that option of having hand sanitizer in your car or maybe at your desk or your workspace or in your pocket as you go through the day, just to keep yourself in a place [00:28:00] where, you know, you know you're going to touch things that are contaminated with other things. It's not just what we're talking about here with influenza and COVID-19, but there's other bacteria that are even more prevalent then the two viruses that we're talking about. And the hand sanitizer or washing your hands afterwards is a great way to help reduce the possibility of transmission. Debra Willard Webb: That's right. Peter Koch: So just smart things as we start to think about it, because you can and I [00:28:30] think that's one of the reasons that I wanted to have you on to talk about this on the podcast right now is there is a lot of information out there and there seems to be a level of anxiety that's creeping up within the public, within the people that you talk too about what's happening out there. And we forget that we have some control personally over what we do, that it's not the zombie apocalypse that we are able to manage some of this. If we think about [00:29:00] it in a rational way and take some functional precautions as we go. So that's really kind of the tact of today's podcast. We want people to leave with thinking there's something that you can do about what's out there. It's not out of your control to protect yourself and your family from what's happening there or even the workers around you. What we want to talk about next really is. So while you're at work, I mean, there's three things you can do at home. Some of those same things you do at home, you can personally [00:29:30] do at work as well to help reduce the possibility of just any illness from for being at work. We talked about that, cleaning off the keyboard, cleaning off the surfaces, just keeping your desk clean or the space that you work as clean as you can and then falling some general good practices. If someone wanted to look for resources on good hygiene, where would they look? What are some places where someone can go do some research and [00:30:00] find some good solid practices for hygiene transmission prevention? Debra Willard Webb: CDC.Gov is a great resource for the COVID-19. They are literally providing updated information daily. So every afternoon they will update the statistics in the U.S. about transmission rates and they will include any new or changed information that [00:30:30] will help us know how to take care of ourselves through the course of this situation. So that's a way to help focus on the facts of what is happening about the illness and the. Disease. And we will start to see information. One of the statistics that is referenced is that the percent of patients who contracted the illness and died from that illness is actually decreasing [00:31:00] globally. There was a point that it was 2.3 percent of people who contracted the disease had fatal cases of the illness, and that number is now down to 1.4 percent. That's an important change. And that's based probably largely on the fact that the numbers are bigger and therefore more meaningful. More people are being tested and identified as carriers [00:31:30] of the virus with milder cases. So the numbers are being balanced better. It is a number that still is higher than the influenza death rate. Influenza causes death in less than 1 percent of those in this country, in the US, who contracted, for those who are tested for it. So there's concern around COVID-19. We need to stay alert. But I think it is important [00:32:00] to realize that the numbers are going to continue to change on a daily basis and we have access to those changes. So we don't need to rely on what we hear at the water cooler. We really have a chance to go to the real information. So one of the suggestions I would have for employers is to think about how to provide a focus or maybe an update of information at some particular time of the day [00:32:30] so that employees let go of needing to feel like we have to stay current every moment of the day and find this to be just a huge distraction right now to us in our workday. The reality is most of us are very unlikely to have any contact with anyone who has an exposure to the illness. That can change, but that's today's information.  So keeping that in a context and still staying current on any changes that may be provided to us is something we want to contain, and not, as I said, just not have it become a significant distraction and focus for us. And frankly, a change to our productivity day to day. We should be going about our daily work and business and not dwelling on coronavirus [00:33:30] any more than we do dwell on influenza. Peter Koch: Sure. That's a really good point. And going to the source, the CDC, to provide us with good, accurate statistical information and then good recommendations based on those statistics as they change, whether they the statistics get bigger or the numbers get bigger, the cases get bigger, the cases get more severe, whatever that's going to be, we will know that from the CDC rather than relying on the news [00:34:00] up-feed update that you might get popping up on your smartphone every 15 minutes or 30 minutes. That's going to say there's another case, there’s another case, There's a fatality here. And that can create a lot of anxiety where if you have the opportunity, you know, do it once a day and check out what's happening on the CDC to see what they have for not only statistics, but recommendations. And that's not just from a personal standpoint, but it would be for an employer standpoint too. So as this disease [00:34:30] maybe spreads across the United States, which is certainly possible, there has been predictions out there that it's like influenza. It can make its way across the United States as it goes. But knowing that we are fully capable as a country to manage this, because we've not only learned from the responses of other countries, we've been able to build on those responses and put those responses [00:35:00] into our, not only our health care system, our emergency response plans, and then how we manage things as companies and as individuals here in the states. Debra Willard Webb: I think the CDC Web site has information for specific populations of people, pregnant women, children, those are obviously concerning categories of folks. The information, the data is very small again, but that information can be viewed [00:35:30] on CDC and will be updated as the data is analyzed and evaluated for what does the data mean? What do the changes in the data mean to us, in the country? So you're right. I think that's a great Web site to tap into. It's important for employers to acknowledge the concern and the virus, I think, and to think through that worst [00:36:00] case scenario. What if the virus changes? And what if this became a more prevalent illness? What would we do? How would you do business? So there are some very significant, I think, opportunities to sit down and rethink those emergency preparedness plans that we worked on and had in place, probably still have in place, on a shelf in [00:36:30] an office. So it's an opportunity to sit down and think through. Is this still current information? Do we need to do some updates to this information? What's different today from when the last outbreak, either in 2012, SARS and MURS, brought some of this to the forefront for us over the last decade and a half, thinking as a business, what does this mean to us? Peter Koch: Yeah. It's an important place [00:37:00] because, you know, if you haven't touched your emergency action plan since 2012 or 2016 or maybe you haven't touched it since it was created. It's an opportunity for you to go and see if it's viable. Still, does it actually communicate to the right people at the right time? Does it manage for informing employees? Does it manage for business continuation? How does it how does it allow for your business [00:37:30] to address not just fire and environmental disasters or theft, but how does it manage an illness that might affect a number of your employees in different areas of production or different areas of work within your company? It's a great opportunity and even beyond that. So this is a great opportunity to have a conversation with your housekeeping and your cleaning crews. Like, so what are you doing? [00:38:00] Like, how are you helping? How are you helping us manage this a little bit better? So do you have the right tools? Are we cleaning effectively enough? Where are we cleaning? What are we doing? Do we have to do a little bit more? Or maybe not so much more but refocus on some different surfaces. So, yes, we definitely want to have the floors sparkling and looking great for our guests to come in and our clients to use. But what are we doing in some of the other surface areas? How do we need to clean those? It's [00:38:30] a great opportunity to talk not only general emergency action plan, but even looking at your housekeeping and your maintenance activity just to see if they're up to snuff, whether this was the year for COVID-19 or if it's just a severe outbreak of the flu. It's another opportunity. Debra Willard Webb: Absolutely. Peter Koch: Very good. So we're kind of coming right down to the end. There's so much more to talk about. But really, we've addressed some of the points we wanted to at the beginning. [00:39:00] We wanted to talk about COVID-19. We wanted to talk about the parallels and differences with influenza. We wanted to talk about some prevention strategies and transmission prevention strategies. And then we also wanted to talk a little bit about the emergency action plan and how to or when to dig it back out and take a look at it to maybe review it. And then last some resources. So having rephrased all that, is there something else that we've [00:39:30] missed that you want to highlight before we close for the podcast today? Debra Willard Webb: Masks have been a topic of concern and interest for lots of folks have had questions about those come along. Should we be buying masks for employees? Should we be wearing masks? And the short answer, long answer is no, not at this time. So for influenza, we don't wear masks. Wearing masks is not as simple and easy [00:40:00] as it sounds. There's a correct way, an effective way to wear them and an ineffective way. So they would be another level of concern that right now is not indicated. And then the other topic is hand sanitizers. There's a lot of chatter about making our own hand sanitizer since we're hearing that some vendors are having a short supply at different times of the week or the month. So making your [00:40:30] own hand sanitizer is an option. Lots of recipes on the Web. But again, the same thought that it's hard to control the effectiveness of a product that's not prepared under pharmaceutical conditions. So I would caution folks from doing that. Peter Koch: Yeah, those are two great points. And starting with the hand sanitizer piece. Going back to any chemical that you're going to use, whether it's for your hands or a surface, you have to know how it's designed to be used. So if [00:41:00] it needs to actually stay on a surface, whether that be your hands or the desk, for 10 seconds, 20 seconds, or maybe it's seven or eight minutes depending on the type of sanitizer you're using, if you don't use it in the right way, you're not going to get the intended effect from it. So you're not going to have the protection you think you're going to have from it. And you don't get that from a home remedy all the time. You don't really know, you know, that if you mix these together, it should be effective. But how is it going to be effective, how [00:41:30] will it truly work? So you mentioned a couple of things earlier on that there needs to be a certain percentage of alcohol within the hand sanitizer for it to be effective. And then you need to follow the instructions and directions to use the appropriate amount and let it sit on your hands for an appropriate amount of time before you wipe it off. So there again, going back to a pre-manufactured piece, it might be easier for you to use and then feel comfortable that you're going to get the effect that you [00:42:00] want rather than having something that might be homemade. And then on the mask side of things. That's a very I think it's a very complicated scenario because there are fit factors that have to be considered. What type of mask is it going to be? And really, is it going to help prevent you receiving, or will it help prevent the transmission? So what are you using it for? And I think there's some different recommendations, too, from an employer standpoint for the general [00:42:30] employee the recommendation as you go through the CDC is, no, you shouldn't be going out and buying masks and wearing masks. But if you're in the medical community, there's another set of recommendations, whether you're pre-hospital E.M.S. or whether you are in the hospital system, whether it's long-term short-term care or the emergency room hospital area. There are other recommendations and then processes for you to go through to make sure you've picked the right mask and that it's being used [00:43:00] at the right time. So those are all important pieces. And then going back again, the CDC, the CDC Web site and searching through that to find where the best recommendations, or what those recommendations would be are really key pieces. So thanks for bringing those up. Those are two really key pieces because those are hand sanitizers, homemade hand sanitizers and mask. I mean, think I heard that. I don't know just about every hour listening to the news someone's talking about, [00:43:30] there is a shortage of masks, people are wearing masks, people are paying way too much for masks. And really, are they the most effective way of preventing transmission? Probably not. OK. Well, I think that just about wraps up this week's Safety Experts podcast. So I wanted to thank you, Deb, for coming on and sharing some of your expertise in your comments with us today. So I really do appreciate that. So thank you very much. Debra Willard Webb: You're very welcome. It was fun to be here. Peter Koch: Excellent. And thanks to everyone else who's listened today. And [00:44:00] if you are looking for additional resources, I want you to check out the MEMIC Safety director at MEMIC.com and the most recent safety net blog on the coronavirus. You'll find a whole bunch of information and lots more links to resources that could help you, not only with COVID-19, but it can help you with your emergency action plan or with other illness-based preparations. And if you have any questions for me or like to hear more about our particular topic on our podcast. E-mail podcast [00:44:30] at MEMIC.com. Also, check out our show notes at MEMIC.com/podcast where you can find links to resources for a deeper dive into this topic. And while you're there, you can check out our podcast archive to listen to past shows like Machine Guarding with Hartley Webb or Seasonal Workforce Safety with Deb Roy. And while you're there, sign up for our Safety Net blog so you never miss any of our articles or safety news updates. If you haven't done so already, I'd really appreciate it. If you'd like a minute or two [00:45:00] to review us on Stitcher, I-Tunes or whichever podcast service you find us on. And if you've already done that, then thanks because it really helps us spread the word. Please consider sharing the show with a business associate, friend or family member who you think will get something out of it. And as always, thank you for the continued support. And until next time, this is Peter Kotch reminding you that listening to the MEMIC's Safety Experts podcast is good but using what you learned is even better.