Episode 20: Tom Malinowski on arguing with dictators and human rights in the Trump era

Tom Malinowski served on President Clinton’s National Security Council staff, then became Washington director of Human Rights Watch, and then for the last term of President Obama’s administration, as assistant secretary of state for human rights. In other words, he had a front row seat for the debate over whether and how we should intervene to help the millions of innocent civilians caught in the civil war in Syria, how we should respond to the Arab spring, to the war between Russia and Ukraine.