Sacred: A Conversation About Birth and Motherhood with Mother Jenessa Berg

In this episode, I talk with Jenessa Berg. She shares her thoughts about motherhood as a creative process, birth-related terms that can be taken multiple ways, and the circle of support during birth.   TRANSCRIPT: Sara: On today's podcast, I will be talking with my friend Jenessa Berg. Jenessa is the mother to three children, a dancer and dance teacher, and an aspiring birth worker. Welcome, Jenessa to the Birth Words podcast.   Jenessa: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.   Sara: I'm really looking forward to hearing your perspective and sharing it with our listeners today. So, I was really interested when we were messaging before that you mentioned that you see motherhood as an artistic and creative process. So tell me more about that.   Jenessa: Yeah, okay. So I think it might help to tell a little bit about my, my story. I started going to BYU a few years ago as a freshman and I was in the nursing program. And I, I was thinking, you know, I really want to be a nurse and probably a midwife later, I was really interested in you know, science and, and I like math and I was like, this seems like you know, like a good thing for me and, but then as I started getting more into it, I just felt like that wasn't going to be the best use of my talents. And like I could maybe be a good nurse, but that wasn't what I was supposed to do. And I'm a praying person and I prayed a lot about it, and I ended up switching to dance, which is a very different thing and part of me was like embarrassed because I thought that people were going to think that like, I wasn't smart or something. But as I got more involved in the arts, I experienced a lot of healing and, and my health got a lot better than it had been. And it was an interesting shift going from, you know, being you know, in this medical world to this artistic world, and my health was so much better. So now I've had I've had three children and as I've had my kids, I've recognized that yes, it is. It is. There is a lot of it that is medical. There's there's a lot of math and science involved in how it all works. But it's also so much more than that. And so, I've realized that you can move beyond the statistics and the evidence and everything and it's, and it's your story, and you get to create it. It’s not just you know, you just have to live something out. Like it's, it's something that you get to be a very active part of, if you choose to be. And you can make it into something really beautiful. So I've started kind of thinking of, I guess over the past three births. I've come to think of the whole process is more of a, you know, this is my story that we're creating. And, and these are moments that I get to choose. You know, I don't get to choose everything but I get to choose. I get to choose quite a lot actually. And it is a creative process and trying to make your life and the life that you're bringing into the world, making it all a beautiful process. Sara: Love that. So how do you think that that perspective comes out when you're interacting with other parents in your community?   Jenessa: Yeah, so that's an interesting question. Um, I think that it's very common to kind of just stop at the, “you know, this is what happened to me. And these are the, these are the are, these are the facts or this is how it worked, or this is how it happened” instead of really taking it a step further and saying, but this is my story, and I choose how it plays out. And so, a lot of times when I have conversations with people, you know, you hear a story and sometimes a birth story is like, well, I went to the hospital and then I and then I had this intervention in this intervention and then my baby was born. And I guess I, I just want people to have stories that they're proud of. And so that's part of why I've become more passionate about birth is because, you know, my first birth I kind of did that, you know. I just kind of, well, you know, I'll just go in and, you know, do what all the experts are telling me here and we'll see how it goes. And it didn't go very well. And when I kind of took things into my own hands and said, “You know, this is my story, and I'm the hero of the story. I'm going to make this a good story.” Yeah, it's just so much better when I've when I've changed that. And so when I when I interact with other people now I, I guess I try to help other people to recognize that it's their story and that they get to choose how it is. And that it's not just, you know, you just have to live it out whatever happens to you.   Sara: Yeah, I love that. So we're kind of jumping all over the place. We have it just a short amount of time, but you had so many good ideas that I was like, Yes, we have to talk about all of them. But only for a few minutes each.   Jenessa: We’ll have to have another session where you just talk… can be a sleepover.   Sara: Sounds good. Okay, so when you reached out to me, you mentioned that a topic that interests you, is that different words or phrases have very different connotations for different people. So can you give some examples of that?   Jenessa: Yeah. So, um, since I originally kind of had this idea that I shared with you, I've been making a list, so I'm just going to kind of read through and just give a little blurb about them. So one thing is, when people say, “we're pregnant,” instead of “I'm pregnant.” Some people think that that's like, a really great way of looking at it like “yes, I am the husband. We're pregnant, and we're doing this together and working together,” and some people take a lot of offense. “Yeah, excuse me. You don't have heartburn. You don't have to, you know, you don't have hemorrhoids. You you're not dealing with this. You're not carrying this baby around all the time. Like, how dare you say that?” You know, “we're pregnant.”   Sara: But yeah, some people are totally like, this is a dual process. And that's how I'm going to express it. So that's very…   Jenessa: Right. And for some people, I think that's a good thing for them.   Sara: Yeah. It's good to know where you fit in.   Jenessa: Yeah.   Sara: And where your partner fits in, so that you’re not…   Jenessa: Definitely. So the next one here, and this is one that you've talked about before, especially with Rebecca Decker, from Evidence Based Birth: delivery or deliver in birth. Um, some people just don't even think of that as a word that could be offensive. And some people are really upset by it because they think my baby is delivered from me like, right? No, my baby is like, it's not taken from me to free me of it or you know, so there's that one. Sometimes there's just words that are just…it's like they started out meaning one thing and then just got confused. So the word postpartum? It means the time period after birth, but a lot of people use it to refer to postpartum depression, right? Which can make it confusing. Yeah, like after I had my baby a few months ago, um, I had a friend and she was like, “Hey, how are you doing?” And I was like, “Oh, you know, just the, you know, postpartum is crazy.” And she was like, “Oh my gosh, like, let me come and like, help you out. Like I had postpartum depression too.” And like she… And I was like, you know, like, I'm, I'm.. I appreciate your concern and help but that's not what I was saying.   Sara: Yeah, it's interesting, because I think that it means that we have an increased awareness of it. But then we have this conflation of this term that just means like, yeah, time after baby's born and I’m adjusting to real life as a mother.   Jenessa: Yeah, yeah. Interesting. So, Oh, here's a here's a phrase that yo some can be very comforting and to some just makes you very angry. And it's, “there's no trophy.”   Sara: Oh!   Jenessa: And I think most people have feelings about that   Sara: Right! Some people probably feel like, “Oh, you're right, that means I can do it my way. This is my story it doesn't matter, there's no prize!”   Jenessa: Exactly, right, like, I don’t have to worry about other people. And other people are like, “you think that I did that for a trophy? Like how shallow do you think I am? You know, like that's usually that's a—you know—phrase it's usually used in like, whether someone got an epidural or not. And, like of course it's not about a trophy, but some people can get… some people take great comfort from that phrase and other people, it just kind of lights a fire underneath them.. Another one very similar to that is, “you don't have to be a hero.”   Sara: MmmHmm.   Jenessa: Um, this one I thought was interesting. I heard a woman recently who had had a stillborn baby and she was really upset when people used the term “angel baby” and talking about her “angel baby” because she doesn't believe in God. And she doesn't have that belief. And she felt like people were always like giving her false hope. Like, no, like,   Sara: Not validating her grief.   Jenessa: Yeah, right. Exactly. Not validating her grief. Another phrase is, “leave it to the experts.” usually referring to medical professionals.   Just the phrase, or the word “natural.”   Sara: Yeah. That one can be so controversial.   Jenessa: Yeah. And it's funny because like, you know, they're just words, but we attach these meanings to them. And when we come at them from different directions, they can be hurtful or they can be… anyway, they can just have such different meanings.   Sara: You have such a good list. Can I like…?   Jenessa: Yeah, I'll send it to.   Sara: And maybe piggyback off of it for future episodes?   Jenessa: Yeah, totally. Totally.   Sara: You’ve got such a good list.   Jenessa: Yeah, I got another one. And this one, I also got from listening to this podcast—such a good podcast—when The VBAC Link was on here, and they talked about belly births, and how, you know, some women like that phrase and like, “Oh, yeah, like my cesarean birth was also a birth” and some people feel like “no, my cesearean birth was not a birth. That was something that I was robbed of.”   Sara: Right.   Jenessa: So yeah, it's interesting, like you wanna you just want to validate people, but sometimes the words that we use, they actually get some harm.   Sara: Yeah, because they come… and the words that I use or that you use They’re symbols that represent all of our lived experience relating to that concept, right? And like for you, and for me, we have totally different lived experiences. A lot of similarities, a lot of differences… and one little word, just a few letters packaged together can mean so much. Something so different to me than it does to you, than somebody in another state, another country, especially as we get into a wider circle.   Jenessa: Definitely. A couple more. There's when people say “easy way out.” And this is another one that’s sometimes with the cesarean section where people will say like, “No, that wasn't the easy way out, you know, like, how dare you say that?” And the interesting thing that I have noticed without phrases that I usually hear it in people who haven't given birth before, and they usually say it.. and it's just because they just don't know they just think “oh, like, I've heard that labor is terrible. So a cesarean section seems like the easy way out, so she must have chosen the easy way out.” You've had a C-section.   Sara: No, it’s not the easy way out! I had labor and a c-section, so…   Jenessa: Yeah, but just don't ever, I think pretty much don't ever tell a woman that she took the easy way ever.   Sara: Yeah. Or any person ever.   Jenessa: The easy way… I had I have an aunt who adopted three children. And someone told her once, “Oh, you went…you took it the easy way.” Because, you know, she didn't have pregnancy or labor, but she was like, okay, like all the years of therapy, like the years of waiting the years of infertility, all of the you know, like, what about the time where I thought that I was going to have a baby and I went and I met him and then his birth mother decided to keep him and you know, like that all this heartbreak years and years of heartbreak? Like, no, that was not the easy way. Ah, anyway, so that was really hurtful to her. And yeah, so I don't know. I don't know that that phrase is really helpful to anyone   Sara: It’s not a two-way think, it’s just a “Don't say that!”   Jenessa: But I think that that it is good to recognize though that a lot of people don't realize that got that that phrase can be so upsetting.     Sara: Wow. Okay. You've given me lots of things to think about over the coming weeks and months. I'm excited. Um, another topic… was that positions of authority in the birth experience. That's important to you. So what's your perspective about who is or who are the authority figures in birth and what responsibilities does an authority figure have?   Jenessa: Perfect. Okay, so um, I think that our society's general view of looking at birth and authority figures is kind of a hierarchy. And you have doctors up at the top, and then midwives because like, they're still pretty smart, but they're not doctors. And then underneath that, you have nurses. And then underneath that you have doulas and then at the bottom is mothers. And I heard someone say something recently about like if we're going to make any change in our maternity care, then it's got to start from the bottom—like you mothers—and I was like you've got to you've…you're at the bottom? …. Like I understood the point, but I was kind of bothered by that because, like—wait, mothers are at the bottom of the maternity care system?   Sara: Right, I have life inside of my body!   Jenessa: There would be no maternity care system without the mothers! Anyway. So like, I think that we need to stop with the whole hierarchy thing. And I'm not saying that we should switch it either. I'm not saying like mothers at the top and everybody else just bow to them. Because it's not quite that either. So I think like if… I'm a really visual person, so like… the way I like to think about it is more like the mother is the center. Everybody else… we're all on the same standing. Right? We're all people, we're all humans, we're all important. And birth professionals certainly have, you know, they're doing great work and they are important. It's not like you know, like they don't matter all. But the mother is in the center because she's the one that is bringing the life into the world and everyone else is surrounding her. It's a circle. A circle of support…   Sara   Do you want to like draw…? I think we can all probably imagine a circle. I love that visual. That's really powerful.   Jenessa: Yeah, I thought of that visual. Mostly… Well, as I was thinking about this, like, I just had this visual from when I was watching, when I was recently watching the video of my most recent birth, yeah. And Sara was my doula. You were my doula for that. And I also had, like, my mom was there and, and I had my midwife, my husband, and right at the part where it was just the very most difficult and I was like, Yeah, “oh, man, like, why am I doing this? Can I really do this? I don't think I can do this!” when I was in that moment. I was surrounded.   Sara: That’s beautiful   Jenessa: There were literally people you know, like there was someone holding each hand, there was someone behind me doing counter pressure. My midwife was there getting ready to catch the baby… like it was it was literally…and someone else was… I had like the nurse was, you know, checking for the fetal heart rate, and it was just really, like that felt right, you know, to be in the center of a circle.   Sara: It was beautiful to be on the outside of the circle too supporting you. Your birth was so beautiful. I love that too. Because so your videographer from that birth, Sarah Asay, also has a website and social media platform called Birth Circle. And that is the metaphor that she uses so much. And I've been doing some business training with her. She talks so much about we don't…this hierarchy is all wrong in…   Jenessa: It's just silly.   Sara: Yeah. Not just in the birth space. But if we think about businesses working that way, that's just not how we support one another. And I love the circle that she's creating of support for women and that she so beautifully took a video of so that you could see that visual. That's… Yes. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, I love all of this. Thanks so much for being on the podcast today. If you had to summarize your feelings about birth, pregnancy, postpartum in one… and I don't mean depression, just the postpartum experience… In one word, what word would you choose?   Jenessa: Birth is sacred.   Sara: I love that. I really think that's beautiful. I agree. Thank you.   Jenessa: Thank you.   Outro: Did words play an important role in your birth experience? If you're interested in sharing your story on the podcast, go to www.birthwords.com. If you're liking what you hear on the podcast, please leave a review on your podcast app. For more resources about harnessing the power of words to benefit the birth experience, visit birthwords.com   Transcribed by https://otter.ai