Photography: An Interview with Birth Photographer Sarah Roberts of Yellow Kite Lifestyle Photography

Sarah Roberts, birth photographer, shares her birth experiences and journey to becoming a birth photographer. We discuss the rhetorical role of being a birth photographer in the community and how her profession honors the birth experience.   TRANSCRIPT:   Sara Welcome to the Birth Words podcast. Today we have a special guest, my friend Sarah Roberts. She is a lifestyle photographer and specializes in birth photography. She is here today to tell us about her stories of birth with her three children and the role that language played in those births. So welcome, Sarah!   Sarah Thank you!   Sara It's great to have you here. I'm going to just jump in with some questions. And for any of these, feel free to answer them specific to one of your pregnancies and births or kind of touch on all of them, whatever just comes to mind as being most relevant. Because I know you have three different experiences to draw from. So, my first question is, what words did you use to identify yourself as an expectant mother and as a laboring mother, and where did these words come from? Did you read books? Did they come from family members, your personal experiences, or maybe from your care provider? Where did these words come from? That you identified yourself with.   Sarah I think that's kind of hard, I didn't really enjoy, like, during the actual pregnancy, I don't think I really identified with any particular words. I think in my mind I was like, feeling: how do I want for this to go? Do I want to lean towards my friends who went unmedicated and all natural or do I just want to lean towards, you know, having a hospital birth and having the medications that I need, and that will help. So I kind of identified myself in those terms. And I really felt like I didn't have any other knowledge. And I'm thinking specifically more of my first pregnancy because it was, I felt like, just the most impactful for me because it was the first one. But I think maybe the biggest thing that I identified with was, which is kind of sad, it was dealing towards the weight gain. I had I gained about 40-ish pounds during that pregnancy, which was, you know, it's hard. It's hard to do that. And then, one of my doctors mentioned to me that I shouldn't gain any more weight. And I was about six months in, or maybe halfway I can't remember. And that was so hard for me to hear because, here I am feeling like I'm doing all I can, I'm working to create, I'm creating a child within me, and then to mention that what I'm doing is something wrong because I'm eating too much and being too lazy, I don't know. And I was, I felt kind of stuck. I didn't know what to do about that, like, how do I, I mean, I have these cravings, I'm hungry all the time, and you're telling me not to gain any more weight. And so that was kind of impactful for me. And in fact, when I went into labor, he was there, he was the doctor on call, and I was really disappointed. I didn't want him to be there during something so pivotal. Luckily, he was there while I went into the hospital, and I just was like, I don't want to deal with him. I have really hard feelings about it what he told me.  But fortunately, all he did was break my water, and administer and he left and there was a shift change. And so, by the time I delivered, it was a new doctor who I felt more comfortable with. So, anyway, there you go!   Sara No, thank you for sharing that. I think that's really important because, like, this one thing that he said, totally affected your relationship with him and the trust that you felt and the comfort, the level of comfort that you had when you were doing this awesome work not only during birth, but throughout your pregnancy. And, you felt like his words acknowledged only one thing that he was judging wasn't being done, as he would recommend, and didn't acknowledge all the amazing things that you were doing exactly as you should be doing and that were going so well. And it sounds like he didn't give any additional advice. Like, if he really was concerned that there shouldn't be more weight gain, then you'd hope that he would also give some tips or like guidance about how to healthfully manage that and still be able to get the nutrients that you and your baby need. And you know, and it sounds like it--    Sarah Yeah well, and even if he did, I probably wouldn't hear it, you know, because I was so focused on how he said it. And the way he said it was just so negative to me. And if I had a better relationship before with him, maybe it would have made a difference to or even mentioned, the more positive things. I don't remember any of that. So it was just that negative thing that I focused on.   Sara That makes a lot of sense. Because, when you are an expectant woman, you are doing so much good and there are some really hard things that you're sacrificing for, and it's really hard to not have people verbally acknowledge that and only verbally acknowledge, like, what you feel like they're saying you're doing wrong. I think that's huge. I'm sorry that that happened. I hope that you had more supportive care providers in the future, and sounds like even among the team of doctors, you were working with that was just kind of one thing that you were glad to get away from. Okay. And let's talk about your birth experiences. Can you remember any words that you used, or that others use, to help you frame the experience? Some people have, you know, preconceived ideas about how birth is going to feel either physically, emotionally, or what. What it is like what is the process of birth? Can you remember in your different birth experiences, how you approach the idea of labor and birth?   Sarah I, I don't know.  I don't feel like I have anything like that shaped what I knew. I mean, all I was just thinking for each one, it was going to be a big surprise. Like, I didn't know what would happen. Even though, I mean granted, yeah, your cervix is going to dilate and you're going to... Your water is going to break, you know, but the sequence of things… how that’s going to happen, the station of baby, you know... I really feel like I just did myself a huge disservice and not finding out, or, you know, having responsibility enough to look up that stuff on my own. I read some of the materials from, like, the offices that I went to, but it was more like the process of birth and, I don't know, I don't feel like, I don't know, I've kind of detached from that. And so, I guess I don't have any. I mean, I think it was more of an unknown, and a little bit of fear because each one was just different, but it's kind of the same process. With the last one I was a little bit more experienced obviously, having two, but at the same time, deciding to go unmedicated for the third one, just I think I went in very unprepared to know what, because if I had gone in knowing: “okay, here's where I am at now, I'm heading into transition, and this is what I can expect it's going to get hard, but then it's going to be close to being done,” you know, but I didn't have that. And I don't remember my moto, I feel like it was such a quiet you know, thing, you know, even in the visits beforehand, nothing like to help prepare me and I don't know, maybe I just didn't ask questions. I didn't know what to ask still, even the third time around. It's so embarrassing to me, but I share this because I want others to not do this too. And it's not until I got into birth photography that really understand it so much better now, and I'm close friends with all these doulas and I hear this all the time and it's like, “Okay, the next time around, I know what's going to happen. I know what to anticipate. It’s going to be kind of different. Because of my experience with the third one.” Anyways, so I don't know if that answers your question.   Sara I think you make really good points by just saying, I think there's no reason to feel embarrassed or sad because so many women approach birth exactly the way that you did and that I did with my first birth experience.  In that, many people do all the time that they don't really have, like you said, I say: “What words did you use to frame your experience?” And you're like: “I don't know, it just kind of went into it.” And I think it's reflective of, I mean, I think that we use language, we use words, in part to reflect our knowledge and experiences, and you didn't really have knowledge or experiences. So it makes sense that you didn't have any words to frame the experience for you. But I love that you're saying that you want that to be not the norm, right? You want that to be different for other women because I think part of the thing is that we don't like birth, it’s a taboo subject in some circles. I've been a doula for a couple of years and like, just this last time I was with my parents was the first time that I felt like my dad was like actually asking questions about it.  He's not, like, getting into the nitty gritty details of birth, but, like, actually asking, “so what do you do with your clients?” And before, he was just kind of like, “Oh, you do that birth stuff, like that's weird” and would just, like, I just felt uncomfortable every time we had an exchange because it felt like something he didn't feel comfortable talking about, which made me feel devalued. And I think that we need to, in our society, show that we value birth more just by speaking about it more. Because not having words to talk about something means that you're lacking a lot more than just words. So, does that ring true with what you're saying?   Sarah Yes. And also, as you're talking it made me also realize, like, I associate pregnancy birth with pain, right? Because, there's the epidural. That's the fallback. You know, if you're in pain, just get an epidural and, and even like, baby showers are kind of a weird thing to go to, people have weird feelings about baby showers. Some love going to or you know, maybe it's for the social aspect. But others view it as a place in the platform to talk about their negative birth experiences. Because I think that they end up having these negative experiences because of the way birth is shaped for them, like, whether it's what people other people have said, you know, negative birth experiences, like just kind of create more negative birth experiences, just because that's what you think, that's what you hear. And you think that's the norm. And so, then women want to feel maybe validated in their decisions to use interventions, you know, or to just be a passive participant and have the doctor just tell them what to do. Or they just have these painful experiences that they just didn't get to process and work through. And so they use baby showers as a place to do that. And so here they are, talking about negative birth experiences in front of an expectant mother who's going to have a baby soon. It's like the worst place ever for that. So we need to change our, we need to change our society and how we, we talk about birth. And we like granted Yeah, if you had a bad experience, yeah, let's talk about it and let's work through it. And but let's see how we can change it to it doesn't always have to be like that it can be power empowering, and it burns is such a sacred event and you're creating life and you're helping a little person come into this world. And it's so special and it's so amazing. And we need to give it that. It's not just some terrible ordeal that women have to go through. And it's something like, oh, we're we're all victims in this.  No, we are not victims, and we are not martyrs. And, we can be champions as we bring in the next generation and if we can help others, and cheer them on to do the same.    Sara I love everything that you just said. I just want to like stamp a big “amen!” right there. That's awesome. I think that critically important, everything you just said. And it made me want to know how you got involved in birth photography and what role you see that playing in like this societal change that you feel like needs to happen around birth?   Sarah Well, I feel like it was just such a thing I stumbled on. I really didn't, I didn't anticipate myself ever doing this. I've always been interested in photography. But I think what made the huge difference for me was my friend and neighbor Danny Reed, becoming a doula and her passion for birth. It just is so infectious. It just, uh, she would talk about it and talk about positive things about birth and her excitement with helping women having a positive birth experience by helping them give them extra support and whatnot. And was just so pivotal in my, in my direction, and  I have a new birth photographer. She lives in my neighborhood area and I didn't even think of that. But when I went to my sister's baby shower, she lived in Idaho at the time, and she was going to be scheduled for a C section because her baby was breached and I had brought my camera.  I went up with my other sister, we were going to have a weekend of it, and the next day was going to be her baby shower and we found out that the doctor changed the induction date to, or the C section date to the day of the baby shower. And so, I don't know what, not what possessed me, but I don’t know what came into my mind like, I should take a picture of a birth like, I didn't even think of the other birth photographer I knew.  I didn't even think of it being a, like, a career option for myself. I just thought that would be fun to document and see and I want to see it I you know, I was kind of fascinated by a C section and so the stars aligned, I was able to be in the room with everyone and take pictures and it was such an emotional, amazing event, watching my nephew be born. And I get a little emotional, because it was so wonderful to see, so beautiful.  And my sister, of course, is emotional and she was able to see her her precious little boy being born and I got to document what was happening.  And, because she is there on the table, couldn't really see much, and her baby was passed through the little window to be cleaned up and foot stamped and measured and all that stuff and so she didn't get to see all that.  And, I got to get those first pictures of them as a family and and then later on I did some of her nursing him, and for the first time I got pictures of him getting bathed for the first time, and all of that was just like wow! What a high and emotional high was on. I wanted to do it again and again and again. And so that's, that was my start of it. And so it was it was a really amazing event for me.   Sara That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that.   Sarah I guess I didn't really finish your other question was, well, and now I see so many others have experiences where they're just like, you know, birth is not such an amazing event for them, for whatever reason or another, whether it was in their control or not. And, I want to help change that.  I view myself as a birth worker even though I'm just documenting things, I feel like it's an important aspect of birth work and making changes.  In the birth photography course i'm actually taking right now, it's saying they are saying people have used, like providers have looked at photography from birth, and seen things like, “Oh, we can change this, we can make this better for the patient.” And so, positive changes are happening and people are even like, I didn't know I, I could do this option, but because I saw it in a picture; until I saw that, I didn't know it was an option. And so you know, women are seeing these options happen, and it's empowering them more. And I think the more we empower women in birth, the more that they will be able to recover after birth and be able to pick themselves up and have less problems with postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety. I feel like those are major, major, not consequences, but things that happened because of poor birth experiences, just things that, traumatic things that happened to them during labor and delivery. And so we can, if we can avoid it, as best as we can, then let's do that and help these women to not, not have as bad a time with depression and anxiety afterwards.   Sara I think that's huge. And I think you were talking earlier about how birth is a sacred event. And like, I think that as you are a photographer in that situation, you're showing your belief that it's just this beautiful, transformative sacred event. And being a photographer there like legitimizes that, that sanctity. Just like you would want a wedding photographer at a really that really important event and you would want it at your baby's christening or blessing or whatever, we photograph important moments in our lives. So I think that you're doing a huge service of removing the stigma or the taboo of birth by just saying, “Look at this beautiful, amazing transformative experience.” And I want it to be memorable and shareable. So I think that's huge.   Sarah Yes, exactly. And, I was able to photograph Danny's pregnancy or, excuse me, birth a couple years ago with her last baby and she kept saying how, how she was able to process her birth again, because I think we want to, we want to talk about our birth story over and over again. It's, it's helpful, it's processing, you know, it's healthy to process that and to remember what happened and the events that happened. And when you have pictures to add to that or video which I am working on too, but video even and hearing the noises and seeing the baby come out. it's just so empowering. You don't really remember those things when you're in the moment giving birth. And so it helps to have the words with it, as well as the images together to help create, recreate that, that event and that story that forms you. That's part of your history. That's, that's who you are.   Sara Thank you. I'm going to keep thinking about all those things you just said, because I've been thinking a lot about birth stories and why we tell them and what sort of like what the rhetorical purposes and I think that photography is a really important part of that. So, I'm going to keep thinking about that. And I feel like our interview has gone a different way than, like, with the questions that I sent to you. But I'm so glad that it did, because I really appreciate all the thoughts that you've shared. And I think that our listeners will too. So before we wrap up, will you let them know how they can follow you on social media, your website, all of those things.   Sarah Okay, my website is www.yellowkitephoto.com and, using that handle @yellowkitephoto, you can reach me on Instagram and Facebook. And, I just would love if you followed me, even if you're not interested or, or whatever, it's important to share and to embrace the stigma of birth being a taboo thing, something that shouldn't be seen and, so give it a follow and share with others if you feel like it's inspiring to you and would inspire others.   Sara Great. Thank you so much, Sarah!   Sarah Thank you. This is so wonderful to talk about. I love talking about birth!   Sara Great. Me too!